Skill Based Gaming!!

[mrvegashotslots01]

The Nevada gaming commision just approved the use of skill based gaming on slot machine what do u guys think? Personally this could add a whole new element in favor of the consumer but we will have to see how this all plays out and play some of the games to really know.

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[goldengreeke]

Not for me.

That's the main reason that I don't play VP.

When I'm in a casino I like to drink and relax...not to think, I do enough of that at work.

[Marilyn]

I play enough games on my computer for entertainment.

Just give me those FLAMING 7s or QUICK HITS.

[Pat]

clearly they are trying to lure the younger group in there since most of them don't gamble

[Evoni]

My 26 year old son who isn't much of a gambler did tell me that he would play slots more if they were skilled based and as Pat said they are doing this to go after the younger gamblers.

Personally I will stay away from skill based games, though possibly a trivia type game would interest me depending on the design and pays.

[SoCalRob]

Not for me.

That's the main reason that I don't play VP.

When I'm in a casino I like to drink and relax...not to think, I do enough of that at work.
My thoughts EXACTLY!!!!!

[dvandentop]

Any link to news article on this?

[camon]

Anything to do with picking for prizes or jackpots or anything that needs skill, frustrates me. I get frustrated when I pick the wrong thing. Like in genie power, mystical temple, and the chinese babies jackpot pick bonuses...I get the mini a lot. Also the games that have "daub" and bingo cards where you can change the card whenever it is not paying also frustrates me and I go crazy changing the bingo card or changing the rhythm of hitting the button twice to daub or just hit once and let it do its thing. I play these games anyway regardless focusing more on the base game pay than the jackpot bonuses. I rather have the bonuses do their thing themselves instead of leaving it up to me to determine the outcome; however, I mainly try to just focus on the base game paying and not worry so much about hitting jackpots or getting into the bonus rounds. If it comes, it comes. There is a debate about the picking being predetermined or not and sometimes it feels like it is and sometimes it feels like it is not when I see the person next to me picking a bigger prize than me or me getting off and someone else getting on and winning something bigger. The base games pay pretty good for me on genie power and the chinese babies, so it makes me keep wanting to play them, but I don't like when I have to start picking in the jackpot bonus rounds. I don't like to think and usually I just pick whatever. When I think, usually I get the worse outcome in the picking especially when I am down and need a certain prize to get back up.

[Handpayhopeful]

I may be wrong but the Chinese babies (fu dao le?) pick'em is predetermined I think....


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[Evoni]

Any link to news article on this?

Here's one of them:
http://cdcgamingreports.com/state-gaming-authorities-ok-skill-based-slot-machine-regulations/

[camon]

I may be wrong but the Chinese babies (fu dao le?) pick'em is predetermined I think....


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That is what I think too, but something tells me that sometimes I just pick the wrong one. I could get the mini my first 3 picks right away or the minor. I have not hit the major or grand on it before, but seen other people do it. I think all slots are predetermined for all the bonuses and some of them just make you think its not when it reveals the hidden ones that you did not pick. I just rather have the bonuses with the pick me to just pick for you and not have to pick ourselves. I don't like picking the wrong thing and it just frustrates me when I do, mostly when I am down.

[Evoni]

That is what I think too, but something tells me that sometimes I just pick the wrong one. I could get the mini my first 3 picks right away or the minor. I have not hit the major or grand on it before, but seen other people do it. I think all slots are predetermined for all the bonuses and some of them just make you think its not when it reveals the hidden ones that you did not pick. I just rather have the bonuses with the pick me to just pick for you and not have to pick ourselves. I don't like picking the wrong thing and it just frustrates me when I do, mostly when I am down.

The slot manufacturer's have gone on record that with Class III slots the picks are not pre-determined when they reveal the hidden picks that were not selected.

With slots like 3d Sphinx, 88 Fortunes, Fu Dao Le, etc...where the hidden picks are not revealed they are pre-determined bonuses.

[SoCalRob]

The slot manufacturer's have gone on record that with Class III slots the picks are not pre-determined when they reveal the hidden picks that were not selected.

With slots like 3d Sphinx, 88 Fortunes, Fu Dao Le, etc...where the hidden picks are not revealed they are pre-determined bonuses.
I was just waiting for your replies. I learned so much about slot machines between you and Dan. Predetermined picks. Just picking wrong. Spins. RNG. Thanks for keeping us educated Evoni.

[Georgiagambler]

No, if I wanted skill based games, I would go to the arcade lol


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[Evoni]

I was just waiting for your replies. I learned so much about slot machines between you and Dan. Predetermined picks. Just picking wrong. Spins. RNG. Thanks for keeping us educated Evoni.

Dan is much better at explaining things like this (wish he had time to post) but it's a frequent question that always comes up on the slot company tours a lot of us have done in the past. :)

[camon]

The slot manufacturer's have gone on record that with Class III slots the picks are not pre-determined when they reveal the hidden picks that were not selected.

With slots like 3d Sphinx, 88 Fortunes, Fu Dao Le, etc...where the hidden picks are not revealed they are pre-determined bonuses.


So this means that if I picked the right corner instead of the left corner that revealed 3 mini jackpot babies, it would still be the same result right? Good to know, so I can just pick whatever and not have to think.

[dwwright12]

Soooooo, when some people get so good at theses skill based games, will the casinos ban them from playing?? You know, kind of like BJ.

[Moneybags]

The slot manufacturer's have gone on record that with Class III slots the picks are not pre-determined when they reveal the hidden picks that were not selected.

With slots like 3d Sphinx, 88 Fortunes, Fu Dao Le, etc...where the hidden picks are not revealed they are pre-determined bonuses.
In Class II when you get a choice (like a "second chance" picking when you have a dud on the reels but a win on the card) it is predetermined. It's obvious in Class II because the win is already on the card. Still, people will sit there and worry over what to pick.


Soooooo, when some people get so good at theses skill based games, will the casinos ban them from playing?? You know, kind of like BJ.

Never thought of that, but probably!

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[Evoni]

So this means that if I picked the right corner instead of the left corner that revealed 3 mini jackpot babies, it would still be the same result right? Good to know, so I can just pick whatever and not have to think.

if the bonus is pre-determined that would be correct, the final win result will be the same regardless of what you select.


Soooooo, when some people get so good at theses skill based games, will the casinos ban them from playing?? You know, kind of like BJ.

I can't imagine that slots still won't be tied to a percentage of payback so the casino shouldn't care who wins or not. No idea of the design of these skill based games, but I would speculate that the bonuses that pop up with the skill factor will only hit and give the person a chance to win a lot of money due to their skill if the slot percentage rate of return is ready for them to win whatever the max win is on that bonus. Then if the person sucks at the skill part and wins less, that is likely factored into the math for when the next bonus will hit.

[dwwright12]

if the bonus is pre-determined that would be correct, the final win result will be the same regardless of what you select.



I can't imagine that slots still won't be tied to a percentage of payback so the casino shouldn't care who wins or not. No idea of the design of these skill based games, but I would speculate that the bonuses that pop up with the skill factor will only hit and give the person a chance to win a lot of money due to their skill if the slot percentage rate of return is ready for them to win whatever the max win is on that bonus. Then if the person sucks at the skill part and wins less, that is likely factored into the math for when the next bonus will hit.

I have no idea about the design of a skill based game either. Here are my concerns.
1. Assume the base game is regular slot play and the bonus game(s) is/are skill based. The people who are good a playing a skill based game will continue to play and get much better. Those who suck will not play the game ever again. You will have a curve that increases in winning percentage as time progresses. Not what the casino wants! Seems like there would have to be some sort of cap on the bonus win.

2. Assume the game is a true skill game. Pretty much the same as above, except worse for the casino. I think there would be a cap on the winnings. But if a lot of people got really good at these games, the casino would not keep them very long. I think they have minimum percentages they are allowed to go down to, but how can one control a skill based game?? I don't see any way of even having a payback percentage figured in to a game that is a true skill based game.

Maybe you can check on these types of games during G2E!!

[Evoni]

I have no idea about the design of a skill based game either. Here are my concerns.
1. Assume the base game is regular slot play and the bonus game(s) is/are skill based. The people who are good a playing a skill based game will continue to play and get much better. Those who suck will not play the game ever again. You will have a curve that increases in winning percentage as time progresses. Not what the casino wants! Seems like there would have to be some sort of cap on the bonus win.

2. Assume the game is a true skill game. Pretty much the same as above, except worse for the casino. I think there would be a cap on the winnings. But if a lot of people got really good at these games, the casino would not keep them very long. I think they have minimum percentages they are allowed to go down to, but how can one control a skill based game?? I don't see any way of even having a payback percentage figured in to a game that is a true skill based game.

Maybe you can check on these types of games during G2E!!

I don't have any concerns, since I doubt I will play a skill based game so it really doesn't effect me one way or the other. :) If this doesn't work for the casinos they won't order the game. Even if the casinos order them they won't predominate the casinos unless of course they pull in the young demographic to start gambling slots in the casino. If that happens and the casino sees they are making money on a new demographic they are encouraging to gamble then I guess we'll eventually see a lot of skill based casino games in the casinos where it's legal but I would think they will still have plenty of the traditional slots too as they won't want to lose any demographic they can make money from.

I agree with you that there's going to be a cap on what people can win regardless of how great their skill level is, because the math will have to take into effect that slots are a negative expectation game and skill based or not, I doubt that will change.

On number two, I don't think any slot can strictly be skill based, the skill based part in my opinion would have to be based on a game feature, bonus or perhaps a community game type thing, or a combination, but it's early days and I'm just guessing. If I notice any games that are advertising themselves as skill based I'll try to get some information on it at g2e but the design of a game at G2e can change before it actually makes its way to a casino floor for real gambling so I don't think we'll really know what they are coming out with and how they will work until they are actually on a casino floor for gamblers to try.

[priceisrite]

Don't read too much into skill based gaming. The casino isn't going to let anyone clean them out. It just means instead of a terrible bonus, if you have skill at the game you will get a slightly less crappy bonus. I don't think these games will catch on and I think the skill portion will have much less influence than ppl are anticipating.

[Free$pin]

I think this is correct. I got to be pretty good with Zuma on the computer so I play the slot because it's fun. There is a choice for one of the bonus rounds to either play the game or pick the bonus. I always play because I have some skill , but one could easily just press the screen and let the game choose. So there might be that option to either play skilled base or not. I'm sure the machine will set the limit as they do for Zuma.

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[Evoni]

Just read this today and think it explains where they are going with Skill based gaming as far as bonus games and the math for the held percentages.

http://ggbmagazine.com/issue/vol-14-no-10-october-2015/article/slot-futures1

[BStu3000]

I remember, years ago, searching the MGM casino floor (no quick feat) for the Pong machine. There had been an article about it Casino Player magazine, and we made some calls to find out it was only at MGM. It was a busy day there, and the Pong machines were totally open. Finally got the big "skill based" bonus, and played really well. Still only won five dollars or so.

I imagine that's how it will be for all "skill" games.


You might be the best Space Invaders player in the universe, but you ain't gonna win a mint.